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Discussion Starter #1
Just been reading about dubs new MQB platform. sounds, special.
but also about there new engine plans. and there seems to be quite a fewrumours of a low capacity 800cc TDI. I cant see what else this will be for other than the up and possibly the polo. There'ssupposed to be MPG figures of over 100MPG to. I really hope they do put this into production as im a great fan ofdieselengines.
 

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I think this is a longer term ambition and you only have to look at the history of the VW group any tiny capacity diesel engines....for instance the Audi A2 that graced europe in small capacity never made it here. If the economies of scale add up then sure VW will follow this route, but most sane people only have to look at the return of an up! and see this is impressive, almost unthinkable from a petrol engine just a few years ago. So in essence a diesel really would need to be over 100mpg to be a worthy variant. Time will tell...
 

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The 1.2 TDI is in use today in the ecomotive Ibizas it has done considerably well. Pushing a 5 door ibiza into high 60s MPG figures is anachievement. I belive back in 2002/3 Vw made a batch oflimited edition 3L engined lupos with reports of average MPG figures around 80 mpg. Looking at the increase intechnology. from 2003 in VWs i can easily see how this new engine could be ground braking. Usingtechnologylike there newest. common rail 2.0l TDIs. The outcomes will be great.
The ability to gainexcellentMPG figures from petrol engines is very hard. I do agree with you that what VW have done to getspecslike they have.75ps from a 3 pot is a greatachievement.
But to drive a small Naturally aspirated petrol engineeconomically is much harder and slower than it would be to drive a TDI equivalent.
but as you say only time will tell. And the only way is Up!
 

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no point the way cars are going nowadays all petrol. also turbo charges as less emmisions and more efficient engines.



your focus which generally used to be a 1.6 or 1.8 diesel today its a 1.0 turbo. same with golfs and most other cars.
 

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Manufacturers are ditching diesel and concentrating on hybrid and electric solutions - it's where the market is heading.

Toyota already don't manufacture any diesel passenger cars anymore, apart from the Land Cruiser and their commercial range.
 

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No. Why do all the engineering to convert a run out model into something more expensive, harder to maintain and to sell, that returns sod all in respect of better economy. The TSI engine is the best thing about the Up! It has proved durable, reliable and very economical.
 

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one thing which i wouldn't mind in an UP! is a 48v mild hybrid, just to help give a little more torque for heavy traffic and to help on inclines, as my Mii unless you're wide open struggles to hold speed up longer inclines, and would be an easy retro fit to the NA EA211 engines, and would even make the engine less pitiful in the ibiza/polo/fabia.
 

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Seeing as the original post is from 2012, before the emissions debacle, it was a valid question.
Times have changed, so the point is now moot.
 

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Seeing as the original post is from 2012, before the emissions debacle, it was a valid question.
Times have changed, so the point is now moot.
Indeed. And why you'd want a heavy tractor engine in a small city car is beyond me but hey ho...
 

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The 48 Volt hybrid. No. The cost of a 48 Volt battery pack. What do you want? 20 Horsepower? Just as a Kers device? Think around £3-4000 on the sticker price. The engineering needs to be paid for somehow. And the weight. And the size. There isn't a lot of spare space in an Up! And the increased fuel consumption necessary to carry this expensive weight around, all the time.


Or, you could just bolt a Turbo onto it and that doesn't cost much, weigh much nor burn much. Call it the Turbo Supplemental Improvement for example?
 

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VW have the Eco up! on CNG instead of a (sub) 3L diesel version.

Even a (truly) 3L/100km diesel can't beat CNG one on price in Europe with CNG being generally a lot cheaper than diesel.
On the ecological scale of things, the CNG up! is in another galaxy far far away - especially when ran on biogas
 

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Seat & Skoda should add the turbo (like the TSI Up) to the Mii & Citigo then you'd have no trouble at all getting up the hills.
 

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The 48 Volt hybrid. No. The cost of a 48 Volt battery pack. What do you want? 20 Horsepower? Just as a Kers device? Think around £3-4000 on the sticker price. The engineering needs to be paid for somehow. And the weight. And the size. There isn't a lot of spare space in an Up! And the increased fuel consumption necessary to carry this expensive weight around, all the time.


Or, you could just bolt a Turbo onto it and that doesn't cost much, weigh much nor burn much. Call it the Turbo Supplemental Improvement for example?
look at what suzuki can do with their 48V hybrid system, the top trim ignis is just shy of £14k, and is pretty much level with a high UP!, and the difference between the SZ5 and SZ-T is £2000 so the hybrid system isn't that expensive, as you have to factor in that £2k adds a few more bells and whistles, like LED headlights, sat nav, AEB, and a reversing camera, so it'd add like what £500-1000 to the cost, which isn't that bad.

the UP! has space under the seats for the battery pack and controller, and for the motor unit, it takes the place of the alternator, denso and continental offer drop in kits, which can easily be fitted, just a shame they only offer them to OEMs as i'd give it a go of fitting one myself.
 

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I have had a good look at it and I can see what is claimed for it. I don't think it is much more than a gimmick to cash in on the "I'm being green" market. The returns in terms of fuel saving are quite small unless you are always in town and if you are, I think it will end up being an expensive liability at the 7 year point when the batteries or motor need to be replaced. I would far sooner see technology used to make cars longer lasting but that goes against the great deities of money and fashion. Most of the energy a car uses in its lifetime is used in its construction so long life is best. Fossil fuels still have the best power to weight ratio and electricity has to come from somewhere - as does lithium.
 
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