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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I know this is a well discussed problem of the 02S 5 Speed boxes rattling at idle, but I can't see anywhere about anyone actually fixing the issue. So my questions in whether there is a cure or fix to this that anyone knows of, or do I just have to live with it?

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
To Clarify, I have the rattle at idle on my car. Garage said it would fix it by changing the clutch, but this didn't work and the car still clatters at idle with the clutch out. It's not just a quiet rattle either but a real clattering rattle. Having researched this a bit more its apparently a 'characteristic' of the Up! gearbox and so doesn't affect its performance, and so VW haven't advised a fix for it from what I can see. However I'm still interested if this rattle can be fixed and if anyone has sent their gearbox to a specialist to have it resolved. Would really appreciate any thoughts on this.
 

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I haven't heard of anyone having it fixed. Amazed that the garage who changed the clutch said it would fix it, as it's not a clutch issue, it's the idler gear in the gearbox that's the problem. These boxes were built to a price, and were barely up to the job, hence the change to the better box in the series 2 cars. Our two 75bhp High Up's (14 & 15 plates) both exhibited the problem, but not to a huge degree, mainly when cold, and less so as they warmed up.
I have to presume that the bearings that locate the idler shaft & gears aren't up to the job, and any "fix" would mean a gearbox strip, and new, better quality bearings being fitted. I seriously doubt that there will be any room left in the gearbox casting to machine and use bigger, sturdier bearings.
 

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I suspect it's a design problem with the first-motion shaft having play, or gears being too loose on the splines, rather than a fault, so a fix might involve some quite expensive custom parts. Maybe someone can offer a precise analysis of the exact component in which there is play, if that's what it is, and possibly machine up some kind washer, spacer or spring etc. If it is down to a poorly-specced bearing (I don't know), then if you can find an uprated part that fits, and cures the problem you'd be celebrated on this forum. There are lots of bearings available if you delve into it, but it is a path fraught with danger unless you are a proper mechanical engineer.

The cheapest thing might well be to source a facelift-model gearbox from a breaker, being sure it comes from the correct donor car to ensure gear-ratios aren't different. You'd probably need to change the shift-lever mechanism and linkages too. Not sure...

[Edit - I missed the post above while typing! But yes...]
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for your replies. From reading up on it, the problem seems to be so common across cars with this gearbox that I'm surprised that there isn't a repair out there, even if it is just to replace the existing bearing with new ones. I assume most people must therefore just put up with it.

I've found a specialist company who will remove the gearbox, inspect and replace any worn parts, but I don't want to do this if there is experience out there that suggests this won't cure it. I was hoping someone had already tried this route who could post their experiences of this. Would be valuable to lots of us if they did.
 

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yes, but I think it's not just a question of a worn part - i.e. a design issue - so you may well end up spending a lot and find that in say, 10K, the box sounds like it did before.

I don't know - you may find someone who has genuine knowledge and can "fix it better than original", but just don't get "upsold" as if the noise returns you'll be looking at a big argument.

In any case, a used facelift box might be be cheaper overall....
 

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Hello,

I know this is a well discussed problem of the 02S 5 Speed boxes rattling at idle, but I can't see anywhere about anyone actually fixing the issue. So my questions in whether there is a cure or fix to this that anyone knows of, or do I just have to live with it?

Cheers
My Citigo (CHYA) exhibited this noise at about 4500 miles from new in 2016. It's still the same at 80k miles with no deterioration in the operation of the transmission.

One way of diagnosis is to:-

Park on a hill, engine running, box in neutral with the clutch engaged (i.e. pedal released). Release the park brake and if, at about 10-15 mph, the noise subsides, it's neutral gear rollover...see below.

This is a documented issue acknowledged by VW and is the result of the car NOT having a dual Mass Flywheel, the device that has been causing some serious trouble on older cars. It is covered under the VW technical product information notice below that basically tells you there is nothing to worry about and nothing that can be done to stop it.

Rattling noise from engine bay at idle vehicles fitted with 02S 5 speed manual gearbox (UK TPI) Release date: 05-Dec-2012 Technical product information Transaction No.: 2032109/1

Customer statement / workshop findings

Rattling noise from the
engine bay area with the engine running at idle.

Technical background

Neutral gear rollover noise describes the condition whereby a rattling noise from the constant mesh gearing in the transmission is heard while the engine idles with the clutch engaged (pedal released).

It is caused by engine torsional vibration and is particularly prevalent on vehicles with a
single mass flywheel and low idle speed requirements. The intensity of neutral gear rollover noise will increase with transmission temperature and / or an increase of torque loading, for example air conditioning or heated rear window activation.

The rollover noise is inherent to
transmission design and will disappear when a gear is selected and the vehicle is driven. The noise is not detrimental to the transmission or engine components and does not constitute a manufacturing defect.

Production change

None.

Measure

When evaluating
transmission complaints please draw on the statements above when assessing the complaint, remembering to account for engine refinement, gear selection “feel”, and clutch operation.

Warranty accounting instructions

Normal warranty guidelines apply.

Parts information

No parts information.

Customer information

Neutral gear rollover noise will not negatively affect the longevity or performance of the vehicle. It is concept related and does not constitute a manufacturing defect.
 

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I think all Ups use an SMF, maybe surprisingly for a triple, and the bulletin says "prevalent" with SMF, not "caused by", which I take implies that a DMF might help, but basically the engaged idling gears chatter owing to torque pulses. I'm fairly sure this was sorted in later gearboxes, perhaps by design changes or tighter tolerances - at least my '19 model appears to be as quiet as any other comparable 'box I have tried, in terms of rattles.
 

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Interestingly (or probably not), there seem to have been a number of gearboxes fitted to the Up! family over the years. Searching a little bit produced a list - of sorts - of various 'boxes. It is hard to tell which are minor changes in ratios, final drive etc, and which have significant changes:
Volkswagen UP Gearbox codes | ProxyParts.com

Mine has the code "UDA", apparently fitted from 2018, but I haven't tried to find the part number on the unit. Is there a definitive source that explains the various 'boxes?

[NB - the build codes are on the label in the boot, and/or in the manual]
 
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