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Hi Charlie

I know exactly where you are coming from on this.

In my previous life I was a Mark 1 Mini Cooper & S fanatic! There were Mark one Cooper S "lookalikes" that came on the market from time to time. Somebody had taken an 850 cc model and put in a 1293 tuned engine, twin tanks and repaired the car Tartan Red with a Black roof. These cars were a lot cheaper to purchase but they never held their value let alone go up in value!

The pukka Cooper S's with Heritage Certificates and original engine / gearbox (matching numbers) were like hen's teeth and people who loved originality would pay phenomenal prices to get hold of one.

I think that starting with an original VW UP GTI asa base will only be a good thing for the future because eventually because they will be a classic car!!

I have mentioned in previous posts that I want to create a track weapon I can use as a daily driver. o_O

There is an element of research for a business idea I have which I can share at a later date.

Cheers
Micky
Im not so sure I subscribe to the future “classic” for these cars but if I did I wouldn’t alter or modify cos historically totally standard cars always do better …

But it’s not my car or my money so crack on my friend I love to pop back here and catch up with this thread. 👍👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #442 ·
Im not so sure I subscribe to the future “classic” for these cars but if I did I wouldn’t alter or modify cos historically totally standard cars always do better …

But it’s not my car or my money so crack on my friend I love to pop back here and catch up with this thread. 👍👍
Cheers Charlie :)

I can't wait to report progress on the actual build when some things like the suspension get installed and when the Volk wheels arrive and I can report back about the handling of the car :love:

Micky
 

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Hi Steve

Thanks for your input.

What are your initial thoughts on stroking the 1.0L TSI to make it a 1.1L? This is a potentially a second stage of my project.

M
You're possible taking THE most expensive route to power gain there is.

There are already up!s in Brazil running over 200bhp with stock engines, albeit with hybrid turbo and bigger injectors.

What possible point is there to gain similar power be having someone cast/machine custom pistons, then to have the block machined (or possibly completely remade if there isn't sufficient material between the bores!) in order to take the bigger pistons? It would cost thousands for such a small gain. In the world of modern forced induction engine, such an old school method of adding power isn't sensible at all.

Please take this next statement in the way it is intended, but looking at your past posts, it is clear that you are not particularly engineering or engine-performance savvy, and you've simply Googled "what makes a car go faster?" and tried to apply every single result to your car. So many of your suggestions simply don't apply to modern engines or make such little difference as to be financially inappropriate. Many 'old school' tuning methods aren't applicable any more, any many other improvements you are looking at are designed for large power engines in competition situations where every scavenged horsepower is worthwhile.

Applying expensive coatings to your exhaust or talking about cylinder scavenging simply won't provide any significant results compared to the expenses involved, or are completely irrelevant to the up!s engine. I can't fault your enthusiasm and willingness to try new things, but please feel free to share your thoughts with those more versed in these matters for opinion before parting with your hard earned cash.
 

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Regrettably,I have to agree with the above. Don't get me wrong, I love reading your posts because of your sheer enthusiasm, but can't help thinking that, as you want your car to be a track car that you can use regularly on the road, you passed that possibility some time ago, if you bring your thoughts to fruition.. Your thoughts on radically changing the engine's internals are going to be very expensive, and are bound to reduce it's reliability, for little gain. These days, value for money performance is more in re-mapping, and taking the engine as far as you reliably can down that route, with a few less expensive extra mods to get you there. Get the suspension and brakes to your liking, the LSD installed, and you'll have a really good track tool that you can reliably use on the road, and not be embarassed on the track.
Remember that no matter how much you spend, there'll always be a talented guy or girl with the standard version that'll pass you on the outside...
Travelling fast is in my blood, your blood, and most others on here, particularly those with a GTI in the garage, but you can throughly enjoy yourself without having the fastest Up in the country.
Several times, I've been in the company of twice World Rally Champion Walter Rohrl, who, apart from having been Porsche's development driver for the past 20-odd years, does many Celebrity track days with enthusiasts who want him to drive their car and give an opinion.
His adage is " For example, Porsche spend multi-millions getting their car just right, then lots of you guys spend tens of thousands of their own money making it worse."

I just don't want you to go too far, spending your hard-earned and not getting value for money .
 

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Stick with what is already proven, exhaust, induction, turbo elbow, sport cat, hybrid turbo, plus suspension, wheels and tyres, and your diff, will have you up into the high 180bhp area. This will result in an excellent fast road/track car with superior handling abilities without racking up massive development costs or drastic changes to your engine with little to no extra improvements.
 

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And you'll still be able to use it for the road reasonably comfortably.
 

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Discussion Starter · #447 ·
Hi Shakotan & 911ts3

I really appreciate your messages and advice (y)

I think you're correct in saying that anything which appears to make my car go faster gets added to my to do list without enough thought about the costs and overall margin of improvements :confused:!

"Stick with what is already proven, exhaust, induction, turbo elbow, sport cat, hybrid turbo, plus suspension, wheels and tyres, and your diff, will have you up into the high 180bhp area. This will result in an excellent fast road/track car with superior handling abilities without racking up massive development costs or drastic changes to your engine with little to no extra improvements".

I will drop the engine internal stuff and use your paragraph above as the blueprint for the project! The results should be glorious (y)

The last time I did any tuning was back in the early 80's to a naturally aspirated A series engine so I am having to shift my perspective to the 21st Century. Thank you for helping with that.

Best wishes

Micky
 

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There comes a point when you start spending too much money for very little gains! From what I've seen the hybrid turbo, downpipe/exhaust, turbo elbow and panel filter is going to be limited by the internals of the engine.... So I would leave everything alone and aim for a reliable 185 bhp and the torque will have to be capped at a sensible level or that little engine is going to go pop
I said this a month ago like everyone else I love your enthusiasm but you have to draw the line somewhere or it would make more sense to start with a Yaris GR or something similar rather than spend an insane amount on the Up GTi project
 

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Discussion Starter · #450 ·
Hi Folks

ENGINE SWAP

I made contact with a company who carry out engine conversions for VW's amongst other quality marques of cars. I gave them a good explanation of my fast car / track car to date and said that in the mid-term I was looking to replace the standard 1.0L TSI unit with something bigger and more powerful..!

They are suggesting a Golf GTI / Golf R engine!

At least I am thinking ahead, although I'm still excited with the project according to the current plan!

I told the company about the JRZ PRO 3 and the Quaife ATB diff which would help to support more power.

I am looking forward to receiving some outstanding parts that were delayed due to Covid and should have the HG exhaust back from Zircotec early next week!

Stay tuned.......

Micky
 

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I've said it once and I'll say it again.

You should either go down the well tread path of "stage 3" and take the 180ish hp or if you want more than that you'll be best to engine swap....and my vote is for a VR6 😍 because it sounds amazing and is a super common swap in the retro VW scene so should have plenty of literature out there.

Of course you could do one then the other if you have money/time to burn 🙂
 

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I can think of a way of making that Golf R engine work to its absolute optimum…. Leave it in the Golf……

Seriously fitting that engine into an up would be a massive undertaking. The Golf R unless I’m mistaken is AWD ?
Micky I think what people here are saying is spot on…. The main message though is if you are trying for epic numbers the 1.0 isn’t the engine. If you can get around 160 to 175 BHP reliably that’s about as much as is possible.
If you want monster power then one or two options have been tried and tested and some of the development work already done.
I still think if your engine swapping and going extreme don’t start with a GTI….. Forget notions of the car being a classic in the future because if that does happen then it’s standard cars that will be the ones to have not heavily modified ones.

As you may know I have an old Mazda MX5 (2008) that is in concourse condition. It’s worth heavy money for what is/was after all a car built in numbers. The car is dead standard. Modified ones are not worth anywhere near as much. I’m using this example as it’s a relatively modern car rather than something 30+ years old.
 

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Discussion Starter · #453 ·
I can think of a way of making that Golf R engine work to its absolute optimum…. Leave it in the Golf……

Seriously fitting that engine into an up would be a massive undertaking. The Golf R unless I’m mistaken is AWD ?
Micky I think what people here are saying is spot on…. The main message though is if you are trying for epic numbers the 1.0 isn’t the engine. If you can get around 160 to 175 BHP reliably that’s about as much as is possible.
If you want monster power then one or two options have been tried and tested and some of the development work already done.
I still think if your engine swapping and going extreme don’t start with a GTI….. Forget notions of the car being a classic in the future because if that does happen then it’s standard cars that will be the ones to have not heavily modified ones.

As you may know I have an old Mazda MX5 (2008) that is in concourse condition. It’s worth heavy money for what is/was after all a car built in numbers. The car is dead standard. Modified ones are not worth anywhere near as much. I’m using this example as it’s a relatively modern car rather than something 30+ years old.
Hi Charlie

Thanks for your input.

Dont get me wrong I will be going for the 170 (ish) BHP and will enjoy the car immensely :love:.

My engine swap idea is for someway down the line but I just thought I would flag it up now so that those who want to comment can do (y)

Cheers
M
 

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Here's a question....

If you do an engine swap on a relatively modern car, probably Euro 6 rated, and which has things like CO2 listed on the reg certificate, a cat etc, would you have swap to an engine with a similar level of approvals for the car to remain legal? What happens at MOT time?

I'm wondering what the implication is if you fit a VR6/5 or any older engines for road use? Do you even have to meet the CO2 output of the unmodded vehicle to maintain type approval?
 

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Discussion Starter · #455 ·
Here's a question....

If you do an engine swap on a relatively modern car, probably Euro 6 rated, and which has things like CO2 listed on the reg certificate, a cat etc, would you have swap to an engine with a similar level of approvals for the car to remain legal? What happens at MOT time?

I'm wondering what the implication is if you fit a VR6/5 or any older engines for road use? Do you even have to meet the CO2 output of the unmodded vehicle to maintain type approval?
Hi Steve

Thats a really good question and one that doesn't have an obvious answer! I will look into this.

M
 

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Here's a question....

If you do an engine swap on a relatively modern car, probably Euro 6 rated, and which has things like CO2 listed on the reg certificate, a cat etc, would you have swap to an engine with a similar level of approvals for the car to remain legal? What happens at MOT time?

I'm wondering what the implication is if you fit a VR6/5 or any older engines for road use? Do you even have to meet the CO2 output of the unmodded vehicle to maintain type approval?
I think there is a classification for cars built in very limited numbers. Kit cars and modified fall into that category. If I remember right Morgan cars built in Malvern don’t have specific number they have to work within. 👍👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #457 ·
Hi Folks

Not sure if you've seen this clip but this is what a 170BHP UP looks like in action!


Stay tuned.......

Micky
 

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Discussion Starter · #459 ·
Hi Folks

When I emailed JBS Autos for advise on upgrading engine internals, this was their response!

"Although we managed to find and source some rods for this engine we didn't find any pistons at the time, however the hybrid that we produce runs at the maximum safe level of boost when we go stage 3 to achieve the 185Bhp and 210Ftlbs.
The pistons and rods in these 1.0 litre tsi engines are pretty much the same as in the 1.4 litre engine as the are both EA211, we have had those 1.4 engines to 230Bhp and over 230Ftlb without issue and there are reports of them going to as much as 250Bhp in Europe on stock in internals.

As such unless you were planning a big turbo conversion we really don't believe upgraded rods and pistons are required."


Cheers

Micky
 

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Discussion Starter · #460 ·
VOLK RACING WHEEL UPDATE

Hi Folks

You perhaps know from a post I made some time ago that I ordered a set of VOLK CE28N Club Racer wheels from Negun in Japan. N.B THIS IS THE ORIGINAL CLUB RACER, NOT THE MORE RECENT CLUB RACER 2 MODEL.

I actually changed the order from 15 inch to 16inch wheels.

I occasionally send Nengun an email to request an update on a potential delivery and they politely ask me to be patient.

However, according to the Nengun website, the CE28N Club Racer is showing as 'DISCONTINUED'. Alarmed at this notification I emailed them yesterday and received a response this morning! They are hearing that much older orders than mine for Volk wheels are being cancelled by the factory. Nengun admit to being confused and are looking into the matter on my behalf....:(.

It seems to me that Volk are a very unusual company with really poor communications with their dealers. From digging around on the internet, I can see many people having to wait 4, 5, and 6 months + to receive their wheels from Volk Racing!!

I invite comments

Micky
 
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