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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

Having a bit of a nightmare trying to establish what on earth is going on with my 2012 VW Move Up! (60ps).

For some time now its been giving me the following symptoms.
  1. Occasionally struggling to start when cold. Sometimes starts and dies straight away.
  2. When cold and you accelerate it feels like its over fueling and the engine wants to die. I liken it to driving an older car with a choke out for too long. If you accelerate it floods the engine. Particularly scary when trying to get out from junctions!
  3. Hesitation / Poor Fueling. Sit at a steady 30 or 40mph in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear, foot completely still and the car hunts and feels like I'm prodding the throttle like a pogo stick. This happens whether the car is hot or cold.
I have VCDS and have run the codes. Intermittently it generates:

1 Fault Found:
2822 - Bank 1; System Too Rich off Idle
P2178 00 [100] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 35805 km
Date: 2020.09.10
Time: 19:39:27

Engine speed: 2213.00 /min
Normed load value: 29.8 %
Vehicle speed: 48 km/h
Coolant temperature: 86 °C
Intake air temperature: 27 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.442 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 77
Fuel level: 35.00 l


What I have tried so far:
  • Replacement Lambda Sensor.
  • New Bosch spark plugs & Air Filter.
  • Replacement Coil Packs (2nd Hand).
  • New MAP sensor.
Nothing has made a difference.

Things Left to try...?!
  • Throttle pedal. Something screwy in the TPS?
  • Throttle Body.
  • Injectors (Measure fuel flow from each / try replacing with 2nd hand)
  • Open to more suggestions here and likelihood of the above being the culprit...
Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks
 

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Looks like unburned fuel (lack of O2) being seen by a lambda sensor...
Try a compression test. It could be a valve issue.
Or it could feasibly be crank position sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Looks like unburned fuel (lack of O2) being seen by a lambda sensor...
Try a compression test. It could be a valve issue.
Or it could feasibly be crank position sensor.
Sorry for the delay. With respect to the Crank Position Sensor do you know where it is on the engine? I can see the Cam Position Sensor on the rocker cover but cant find the Crank one.
 

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Not exactly sure how to get to it, but I note the workshop manual shows it plugged in so as to point at the teeth on the starter ring gear, so I'd look at the bell housing towards the top and rear. I am not entirely sure if is used as anything other than a rev counter, so it may not be the problem. I know from previous vehicles, that occasionally, poor running came down to crank position sensors going bad - which were used for fuel and or ignition timing. But, the cam position sensor is also used for fuel and ignition timing quite often, so on an Up!, I'm really not sure which sensor provides the positional data for timing....

I think also that you'd see specific fault codes for these sensors, but sometimes not all codes are shown if there are several faults in play....

And there is the knock sensor too - which is affects advance/retard of ignition (it can retard ignition for cold starts) but I imagine this could have an effect like you describe if it was going bad - but again, it'd have a specific fault code....

Puzzled.

Your air filter is clean, I assume?

You may need to get the car hooked up to a full-on factory-supplied diagnostic computer at a dealer.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Air filter is clean. Do you think factory debug would through out more information at a dealer than VAGCOM?
 

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My last "clutching-at-straws" idea is the fuel filter; and if it is clogged, be sure to drain and clean the tank as the muck must get in somehow. Also, it is often cited, but almost never an issue, the fuel itself - is there any chance it is contaminated or has water in it?

You will have exhausted my 45+-years of DIY "what is wrong with this dam car?" after all the above :)
 

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I very much doubt it would be the crank position sensor as this is the main positional sensor and has its own diagnostics which have not flagged up.

For info if anyone is interested the crank sensor typically has a 58 tooth trigger wheel (60 equally spaced teeth with 2 missing) while the cam position sensor has a 4 tooth tooth trigger wheel. The cam sensor is used to identify which TDC cycle the engine is on (which the crank sensor can’t do), control variable cam timing on engines with it, and as a backup limp home in case of crank sensor failure. The much greater resolution of the crank sensor is used for everything else like ignition and fuel injection timing, misfire detection etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Some more details.

I purchased a 2nd hand Throttle Body and also a Fuel Rail and Injectors.

Fitted both and the car STILL runs rough.

I may have to bite the bullet and take the car to VW...

Only other thought is to source the Pre & Post CAT O2 sensors and try them. As I said above one was changed already but to try changing the other. Then its the fuel pump / filter....

Not impressed :cautious:
 

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Some more details.

I purchased a 2nd hand Throttle Body and also a Fuel Rail and Injectors.

Fitted both and the car STILL runs rough.

I may have to bite the bullet and take the car to VW...

Only other thought is to source the Pre & Post CAT O2 sensors and try them. As I said above one was changed already but to try changing the other. Then its the fuel pump / filter....

Not impressed :cautious:
Some more details.

I purchased a 2nd hand Throttle Body and also a Fuel Rail and Injectors.

Fitted both and the car STILL runs rough.

I may have to bite the bullet and take the car to VW...

Only other thought is to source the Pre & Post CAT O2 sensors and try them. As I said above one was changed already but to try changing the other. Then its the fuel pump / filter....

Not impressed :cautious:
Some more details.

I purchased a 2nd hand Throttle Body and also a Fuel Rail and Injectors.

Fitted both and the car STILL runs rough.

I may have to bite the bullet and take the car to VW...

Only other thought is to source the Pre & Post CAT O2 sensors and try them. As I said above one was changed already but to try changing the other. Then its the fuel pump / filter....

Not impressed :cautious:
Hi,

Did you ever figure out what was wrong with the car?
 
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