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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Folks

The latest development on my UP GTI fast road car / track day car is that I have just ordered a JRZ RS PRO 3 suspension with external reservoir and 3 way adjustable settings. These include :-

High speed compression damping (14 clicks)

Low speed compression damping (8 clicks)

Adjustable rebound damping (21 clicks)

I am waiting for the front / rear strut braces to arrive.

I have previously looked into having a stiffer / adjustable front sway bar. The common feedback from forum members is that this will increase understeer!

With all the variable settings on the suspension, does anyone think that i could include the sway bar and dial in or out the understeer using the 3 way adjustables?

Don't forget I will have the Anti-torque Bias Differential installed.

Cheers guys!

Michael
 

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Probably worth watching Misha's videos and seeing if he mentions Amy settings when he had them on the sub 7up. Or even messaging him on social media?

That's the trouble with all that adjustment if you don't know what you are doing I'm sure you could make a complete mess of it 馃槵
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Probably worth watching Misha's videos and seeing if he mentions Amy settings when he had them on the sub 7up. Or even messaging him on social media?

That's the trouble with all that adjustment if you don't know what you are doing I'm sure you could make a complete mess of it 馃槵
Hi again Mark

Good idea! I think it was Apex Motorsports who created the Sub Seven Up, but I can try Misha directly!

Michael
 

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You'll barely affect the fitting of a stiffer front A/R bar with the dampers, as it's the roll stiffness, particularly on an FWD car that determines whether you plough straight on, or go round the corner.
The changes to damping to get the same effect on understeer would have to be far greater than a tweak of a sway bar. Leave the job of damping to the dampers, and roll stiffness to the A/R bar, that way you'll not go chasing it, and spending good money after bad.
Always remember that VAG Group spent the big money on developing the Up originally, and got it to be a great handling little hatch, with maybe just a little difference for the Gti. Best to try it with your planned damper mods first before you waste any money on a different A/R bar.
I've seen so may good standard set-ups ruined by poorly matched suspension components.
I'd be the first to say that the original Gti suspension isn't the best when you're really pressing on over the bumps, however, if you're tracking the car, you will need something better, and as you've ordered the JRZ stuff, you're already committed.
Strut braces always a good idea,
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You'll barely affect the fitting of a stiffer front A/R bar with the dampers, as it's the roll stiffness, particularly on an FWD car that determines whether you plough straight on, or go round the corner.
The changes to damping to get the same effect on understeer would have to be far greater than a tweak of a sway bar. Leave the job of damping to the dampers, and roll stiffness to the A/R bar, that way you'll not go chasing it, and spending good money after bad.
Always remember that VAG Group spent the big money on developing the Up originally, and got it to be a great handling little hatch, with maybe just a little difference for the Gti. Best to try it with your planned damper mods first before you waste any money on a different A/R bar.
I've seen so may good standard set-ups ruined by poorly matched suspension components.
I'd be the first to say that the original Gti suspension isn't the best when you're really pressing on over the bumps, however, if you're tracking the car, you will need something better, and as you've ordered the JRZ stuff, you're already committed.
Strut braces always a good idea,
Hi there

Thanks so much for your advice.

I have heard from a few people that the stock ARB is very good and "neutral" so I will keep with that. There are a couple of youtube videos by Olsen Motorsport just about the RS PRO 3 including one on tweaking the settings.
I will revisit that.

Thanks for the thumbs up on the strut braces (y).

Cheers
Michael
 

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H&R make a roll bar for the rear i would get that

any pictures and sound check on the exhaust you bought??
regards
S枚ren
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
H&R make a roll bar for the rear i would get that

any pictures and sound check on the exhaust you bought??
regards
S枚ren
Hi Soren
I didn鈥檛 know H&R did a rear roll bar?! Are you sure and do you have a link?
I have just sent the exhaust to Zircotec for anti heat coating!
Cheers
Michael
 

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I wouldn't even dream of fitting a rear A/R bar (even if you could find one), until you've fitted the suspension you've bought and adjusted it to your liking.
 

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The big thing with setup is what suits one may not suit another. One person could be over the moon with their settings another could be through the hedge.
There are thousands of permutations after all.
I come from a motorcycle racing background where having lots of finite settings is the norm. It鈥檚 far to personal a thing to start dealing in someone else鈥檚 base settings.
 

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How does it work with the Up!'s twist-beam rear axle? It's kind of inherently like an ARB...
An ARB will still prevent body roll鈥. The cars body is in effect mounted on the rear beam but it still moves.

As for the comment 鈥 don鈥檛 fit an ARB until your happy with suspension set up 鈥 Why ? The whole package needs setting up as one. You may get the suspension set up somewhere near then throw a great big ARB sized spanner in the works鈥︹ Whatever is the point of that ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
An ARB will still prevent body roll鈥. The cars body is in effect mounted on the rear beam but it still moves.

As for the comment 鈥 don鈥檛 fit an ARB until your happy with suspension set up 鈥 Why ? The whole package needs setting up as one. You may get the suspension set up somewhere near then throw a great big ARB sized spanner in the works鈥︹ Whatever is the point of that ?
Hi Charlie

Thanks for your input. Ive just found this brilliant youtube clip which explains the twist beam rear axle.


Cheers
Michael
 

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An ARB will still prevent body roll鈥. The cars body is in effect mounted on the rear beam but it still moves.

As for the comment 鈥 don鈥檛 fit an ARB until your happy with suspension set up 鈥 Why ? The whole package needs setting up as one. You may get the suspension set up somewhere near then throw a great big ARB sized spanner in the works鈥︹ Whatever is the point of that ?

Simply because he may find that the car doesn't need one, especially when the JRZ package he's bought is just about the trickest suspension kit on the market for an Up, and that his car is mainly for use as a fast road car.
I have always thought that rear anti-roll bars for a short wheelbase, light car add little or nothing, or even adverse behaviour, and end up being taken off again shortly afterwards.
I've lost count of the times friends / acquaintances have mismatched suspension bits and had to start again.
I know you've been into bikes for a long time, I've been building, rallying and racing cars for 40+ years, and learnt the hard way when I was young & inexperienced. If the car was a bigger & heavier I'd probably agree with trying one, but nowadays saloons & hatches don't come much lighter than the Up, and IMO Mickeyboy would be wasting his money..
Just trying to offer some advice from an older, been there, head.
 

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Simply because he may find that the car doesn't need one, especially when the JRZ package he's bought is just about the trickest suspension kit on the market for an Up, and that his car is mainly for use as a fast road car.
I have always thought that rear anti-roll bars for a short wheelbase, light car add little or nothing, or even adverse behaviour, and end up being taken off again shortly afterwards.
I've lost count of the times friends / acquaintances have mismatched suspension bits and had to start again.
I know you've been into bikes for a long time, I've been building, rallying and racing cars for 40+ years, and learnt the hard way when I was young & inexperienced. If the car was a bigger & heavier I'd probably agree with trying one, but nowadays saloons & hatches don't come much lighter than the Up, and IMO Mickeyboy would be wasting his money..
Just trying to offer some advice from an older, been there, head.
Completely agree with not fitting an ARB and why. But if one is to be fitted I鈥檓 sure you鈥檒l agree it chould be done before setup.

To be honest apart from the 鈥淭rick鈥 factor I honestly believe fully adjustable suspension on a Road car is a waste of money鈥.
Like your cars we had 鈥 Base鈥 settings for the bikes for each individual track and in addition the weather. How on earth does a driver set up to cover the simply massive variations and conditions the road presents ?
I鈥檝e lost count of the amount of fellas who lined up to by trick bike suspension by Ohlins WP and the like for their road bikes and end up far worse off than on standard ( Still adjustable) suspension. Almost always because they not their mates had the tiniest clue how to set it up. And that鈥檚 before they even considered spring rates and basic geometry set up.
What is 鈥淔ast road 鈥 anyway ? The standard rear GTI suspension isn鈥檛 exactly poor. The rear struggles especially under weight transfer but we are being 鈥︹.Well a bit silly. For road use a nice KW setup might be nicer but unless your going nuts or stupidly fast all of the time it鈥檚 a posers luxury rather than essential.
Someone once said 鈥 If you can鈥檛 go quick with 150BHP you ain鈥檛 gonna do it with a 1000鈥︹ Suspension is a bit like that as far as road cars are concerned.

It is practically impossible to set up multi adjustable suspension for a road car鈥. It is absolutely impossible to set it over via that bloke on the interweb

Add to this what suits one driver setup wise may end up with another driver going through the hedge backwards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Charliefarlie & 911ts3

I understand the concept of "overkill" but from my experience of upgrading smart phones, smart TV's and tablets over the years, I often find that an upgrade brings tons of things I don't use / need but often there are 2 or 3 features I couldn't live without :)

If I can get a small bunch of outstanding features, I'll be happy and if not i'll be poorer.......certainly financially!

Cheers guys.
Michael
 

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Thanks Charliefarlie & 911ts3

I understand the concept of "overkill" but from my experience of upgrading smart phones, smart TV's and tablets over the years, I often find that an upgrade brings tons of things I don't use / need but often there are 2 or 3 features I couldn't live without :)

If I can get a small bunch of outstanding features, I'll be happy and if not i'll be poorer.......certainly financially!

Cheers guys.
Michael
With respect a smart phone or TV is a completely different bag of bolts. Poorly set up suspension can be dangerous. I just can鈥檛 see how you can set up for all eventualities so instability is actually likely.

The more mundane for want of a better word kit is set up with a lot of compromise built in. It won鈥檛 be the ultimate on either the road or the track but it will cope with both probably better than the standard kit.
Buying all that unwanted adjustability comes with the distinct probability of liability.
We鈥檙e not taking flashing lights or big speakers here we鈥檙e talking about safety too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
With respect a smart phone or TV is a completely different bag of bolts. Poorly set up suspension can be dangerous. I just can鈥檛 see how you can set up for all eventualities so instability is actually likely.

The more mundane for want of a better word kit is set up with a lot of compromise built in. It won鈥檛 be the ultimate on either the road or the track but it will cope with both probably better than the standard kit.
Buying all that unwanted adjustability comes with the distinct probability of liability.
We鈥檙e not taking flashing lights or big speakers here we鈥檙e talking about safety too.
Fair point and I'm not trying to be flippant with safety aspects, so my tech analogy probably not the best. But from my watching of youtube vids relating to the JRZ RS PRO3, the guys at Olsen Motorsport really raved about the usability of the system on a fast road car! His objective seems to be maintaining a "flat" car with very good compliance and smoothness. As we know, the roads in the UK have potholes and many other flaws. If I can ultimately make a car that feels great and handles everything with aplomb, and allows me to do things I couldn't in a standard set-up I will have achieved my goal :) (y)

Cheers
M
 

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Fair point and I'm not trying to be flippant with safety aspects, so my tech analogy probably not the best. But from my watching of youtube vids relating to the JRZ RS PRO3, the guys at Olsen Motorsport really raved about the usability of the system on a fast road car! His objective seems to be maintaining a "flat" car with very good compliance and smoothness. As we know, the roads in the UK have potholes and many other flaws. If I can ultimately make a car that feels great and handles everything with aplomb, and allows me to do things I couldn't in a standard set-up I will have achieved my goal :) (y)

Cheers
M
Well what would you expect them to say ?
Micky I was a track martial/instructor for 5 years at Donnington park on bike. I and my fellow instructors could never count the amount of lads that arrived with fancy and expensive suspension on their bikes and that kit made the bikes un rideable.".. Ohlins fit hideously firm springs. A bike with a very firm spring is never going to handle no matter what setup is dialled in. They genuinely would have lapped quicker on the standard kit fitted to the bikes when they left the factories.
Of course they were amazed and disappointed after spending thousands of pounds after reading bike magazines or going on YouTube.
Your money do as you see fit 馃憤馃憤
 
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