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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Folks

I have sent my down pipe and mid section of the exhaust to a company called Zircotec to have it treated with a coating.

The idea being that this preparation will negate "heat soak" in the engine compartment and improve performance.

Cheers
Michael
 

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Some people get their manifolds (on other engines) treated with ceramic coatings in order - some of them say - to cool exhaust gases.

Their theory is that cooler gases are denser and thus lower pressure (as is the case on the intake side, using an intercooler) and it requires less work to shift the exhaust out, meaning more efficiency! They say there is more than enough heat for catalysts to work....

I have no idea, and while physics theories are enjoyable, I have not seen any rolling road results to back the idea up (or not), but do I agree a nice, non-rusty finish looks far better on a manifold or down pipe!

N.B. like some other posters on the site (who can remain nameless), I tend to prefer tested facts, from using relevant, real engines, over marketing claims from people who want flog me bits and pieces!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Some people get their manifolds (on other engines) treated with ceramic coatings in order - some of them say - to cool exhaust gases.

Their theory is that cooler gases are denser and thus lower pressure (as is the case on the intake side, using an intercooler) and it requires less work to shift the exhaust out, meaning more efficiency! They say there is more than enough heat for catalysts to work....

I have no idea, and while physics theories are enjoyable, I have not seen any rolling road results to back the idea up (or not), but do I agree a nice, non-rusty finish looks far better on a manifold or down pipe!

N.B. like some other posters on the site (who can remain nameless), I tend to prefer tested facts, from using relevant, real engines, over marketing claims from people who want flog me bits and pieces!
Hi Steve

Thanks for your input.

As the down pipe will be going on to the car for the first time with the coating applied, i won't be able to do a before / after comparison but from what I have read it should be a positive upgrade (y)

Cheers
Michael
 

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...and what was the benefit that you were told?
I am OK with the cosmetics, BTW! :)

The sellers should be able to provide their own test data, I would hope..... That'd be a start.
 

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Some people get their manifolds (on other engines) treated with ceramic coatings in order - some of them say - to cool exhaust gases.

Their theory is that cooler gases are denser and thus lower pressure (as is the case on the intake side, using an intercooler) and it requires less work
I’m kind of thinking the opposite…….If as the OP suggests this barrier keeps the engine bay cooler then it must keep the exhaust gases hotter and thus less dense, and require more work to ‘pump’ them out leading to a reduction in engine efficiency.

If the engine bay is cooler there may be a slight reduction in charge air temperature and efficiency improvement when the vehicle is stationery or slow moving.

Overall I would expect the result to be purely cosmetic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I’m kind of thinking the opposite…….If as the OP suggests this barrier keeps the engine bay cooler then it must keep the exhaust gases hotter and thus less dense, and require more work to ‘pump’ them out leading to a reduction in engine efficiency.

If the engine bay is cooler there may be a slight reduction in charge air temperature and efficiency improvement when the vehicle is stationery or slow moving.

Overall I would expect the result to be purely cosmetic.
Hi there

My GTI is the first turbo vehicle I have ever owned, so I have had to understand the dynamics of forced induction. As turbos seem to thrive on cold air taken in, I understand that keeping the engine bay temperatures down, the air going into the turbocharger will be cooler and that's got to be a god thing.........🤫
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi there

My GTI is the first turbo vehicle I have ever owned, so I have had to understand the dynamics of forced induction. As turbos seem to thrive on cold air taken in, I understand that keeping the engine bay temperatures down, the air going into the turbocharger will be cooler and that's got to be a god thing.........🤫
er,"good thing"
 

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Yes, completely agree cooler charge air temperatures are a good thing (on naturally aspirated as well as boosted engines).
I just don’t think it’s going to make much difference to charge air temperatures in this installation once the vehicle is moving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, completely agree cooler charge air temperatures are a good thing (on naturally aspirated as well as boosted engines).
I just don’t think it’s going to make much difference to charge air temperatures in this installation once the vehicle is moving.
You may be right. The added coating should provide some additional protection / longevity.
 

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Yes but on the move, tons of fresh air comes into the engine bay, and exits. My guess is temps are fairly stable, and induction air comes into the intercooler at the front of the engine, while the exhaust is fairly low at the rear.

I'd have thought anything lowering the pressure of the exhaust would be good, and cooling would do that...

Hard to guess the real, measurable effect but a fun bit of musing on the theory!



Edit - postings just crossed!
 

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For those interested there is a double benefit of cooler charge temperatures (for NA and boosted).
  • firstly the air is more dense so you can have a greater air mass in cylinder for a given intake pressure
  • secondly reduced air temperature reduces the tendency for knocking and thus you can operate at a more advanced ignition angle closer to the optimum ignition angle, thus running more efficiently and getting more useful work from your air/fuel mixture in cylinder
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes but on the move, tons of fresh air comes into the engine bay, and exits. My guess is temps are fairly stable, and induction air comes into the intercooler at the front of the engine, while the exhaust is fairly low at the rear.

I'd have thought anything lowering the pressure of the exhaust would be good, and cooling would do that...

Hard to guess the real, measurable effect but a fun bit of musing on the theory!



Edit - postings just crossed!
I did have a conversation a year ago with JBS and they were looking at the charge cooler to see how to improve it..!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
For those interested there is a double benefit of cooler charge temperatures (for NA and boosted).
  • firstly the air is more dense so you can have a greater air mass in cylinder for a given intake pressure
  • secondly reduced air temperature reduces the tendency for knocking and thus you can operate at a more advanced ignition angle closer to the optimum ignition angle, thus running more efficiently and getting more useful work from your air/fuel mixture in cylinder
Thanks for that :). I guess a custom remap would pick up on that.!
 

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Seriously 🤔
Strangely and despite my ridiculous spends on motorcycles I’m just the opposite when it comes to cars. I like absolutely mint but original cars.
I have an old 2008 MX5 the 2.0 Sport model with the six speed box LSD and it’s original from the factory Bilstien suspension…. Now most have swapped everything out and modded the cars. My one is factory original. I was told the Bilstiens weren’t rebuildable. Strictly speaking they aren’t. But with the help of a very clever engineer my ones have been rebuilt with mostly brand new parts some of which were made in my pals workshop on his milling machines and lathe. But it’s been done to the factory original specifications no modifying in any way.
Seriously I would be interested in a car like yours. I wouldn’t spend the money to modify my up GTI but I would consider something a but special.
10D3D5F6-ED1D-4CA9-8EB6-905CBC588F5F.jpeg
 

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Strangely and despite my ridiculous spends on motorcycles I’m just the opposite when it comes to cars. I like absolutely mint but original cars.
I have an old 2008 MX5 the 2.0 Sport model with the six speed box LSD and it’s original from the factory Bilstien suspension…. Now most have swapped everything out and modded the cars. My one is factory original. I was told the Bilstiens weren’t rebuildable. Strictly speaking they aren’t. But with the help of a very clever engineer my ones have been rebuilt with mostly brand new parts some of which were made in my pals workshop on his milling machines and lathe. But it’s been done to the factory original specifications no modifying in any way.
Seriously I would be interested in a car like yours. I wouldn’t spend the money to modify my up GTI but I would consider something a but special. View attachment 7046
Like the MX. A few of the ex-Seven guys have the latest one as an easier but still rewarding to drive alternative for the older gent.

Best kept standard and as they left the factory, each version is excellent as is. I remember sitting in one of the first series when new at the local Mazda dealership which was run by TWR back then, got to drive it, I was into X1/9’s then and the Mazda was so much better put together… no rattles and quality. The X1/9 drove better and was ridiculously cheaper, I knew how to fix it.
 
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