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<!-->

Before I start with the body of this topic, I'd like to make
a clear statement that I'm not anti VW nor am I attempting to upset, annoy or
deter any current or prospective Up! owners.
Should any moderator or member feel
this topic shouldn't be here, I'm fine with that.

Anyone who followed my other thread http://www.upownersclub.co.uk/forum/awful-experince-at-benfield-of-newcastle_topic1417.html will be aware that after a less than
favourable experience in trying to purchase an Up! I am considering the
competition; the Seat Mii and the Skoda
Citigo.

The purpose of this thread is to try and share my
experiences with all three cars and how they compare to each other which will
ultimately enable me to make my own mind, but in addition I would hope would form
a useful resource for anyone in the future in a similar position. Given that I've never owned a car from any of
the three manufacturers in the past I have no ""˜brand loyalty' to any of them,
so I would hope that would lead to a more unbiased opinion. I was however initially drawn to the Up! because
I believed (and still do in fact) that it looked ""˜the best'.



I test drove a 60PS Move Up! BMT in Tornado Red. I found the interior a very nice place to be. Nice supportive seats (which is improved in
the High Up! I was told) with plenty of adjustment, so easily got into a
comfortable driving position. Initial problems
in starting the car were quickly resolved when the dealer pointed out that the
ignition wouldn't turn without the clutch depressed. On the road I was very impressed. Words like smooth, quiet and refined all came
to mind. Felt ""˜planted' on the road and had a ""˜larger car'
feel. I did find that under load, the
engine note became a bit more audible, but it's a pleasant, cheeky kind of
noise. All the controls felt nice and
solid, easy gear change, smooth breaking and the pick up was plenty quick enough
for me J. All in all a thoroughly pleasant experience.

If I do order an Up! then it would be the High Up! BMT with
pretty much everything. In order to
compare similar cars from Seat/Skoda, I prepped the following google doc to
understand how the pricing structure and options choices vary. I've only covered the ""˜top' model here (since
that's what I'd be going for), but I'd imagine it's a similar story for the
other variants. Its not at all
surprising that on price point alone the order is VW > Seat > Skoda. But it is surprising to see the variance in
certain identical options, and that what one charges for, another gives for
free (and vice-versa)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar863dSNgEd8dEFTZ052aEx0YTVXSWJwQjVnNmx2NXc

I'll try to keep this thread updated (if people are
interested) over the coming days. Next up is the wild card Twingo with the Mii
and Citigo then battling for my affections this coming Saturday
 

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I'm liking that spread sheet, will be interesting to read your opinions once you have driven them all.
Edited by: ZillUp
 

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Glad you're taking the time to do this, bazves. It will be usefil to potential buyers. I think the choice comes down to two things (there wasn't a choice when I ordered my up! as the other two weren't available then.) There's the look and the price. And for some I guess the badge snobbery. Three things! You save about £1000 on the most expensive model if you go for the Skoda, and I would have been tempted, but having had a good look at a Citigo I'm glad I got the up! because I love the way it looks. That saving must be tempting though!
 

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Great idea bazves. A nice unbiased initial review and a really useful spreadsheet. I also think it's exactly the right place to be. Whilst most of us have already ordered/received our up!s, I'm sure there is a lot of guest traffic on the site from people who are still trying to make up their minds so this is going to be very helpful for them.

Well done for taking the time and making the effort to post all your findings for the benefit of others
 

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Excellent work, I await your next post with interest, esp as Mrs privatedoc now fancies a 5 door Up or similar (in fact she is going for a test drive in the 3 door up this weekend) and our dealer has both VW & Skoda

well done sir
 

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Discussion Starter #6
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<!-->

Although not in keeping with the thread title, the wild card
I'm looking at is the Renault Twingo. So just come back from test drive. Here's a few pics (we all like car pictures
right? Even non V-Dubs). Note, the White
Smart that you can see hiding in the background in the first couple of shots is
my current motor (and will be going for the new car)







My other half's car is a Renault Clio, which we bought from
the same dealer. Despite a rather
unpleasant experience with them (maybe its me), since the guy we dealt with
looks to have moved on I decided to chance we arm. This time round was much better. The Twingo itself is a nice drive. Very quiet
and smooth, although felt a little sluggish (but that's not a huge issue for
me, when I'm driving the needle rarely passes 3000 rpm). Nice comfy seats and funky interior. The GFs Clio is also a lovely drive, and the
Twingo does not feel that much different.

The initial deal given was pretty good (didn't negotiate the
final price, but I indicated that I'd expect a bit of movement, and he seemed
open to talking about it). Expected delivery was mid to end September, and as a
result of that he said that the trade in value would be adjusted. However, the value quoted for the timescale
was the same as the value for handing over ""˜now' given by VW, and 10% higher
than the ""˜adjusted' (to October delivery) from VW. I'd be interested in anyone else who has
experienced this with a trade in against an Up! i.e. because there is 3 months
wait you get what your car is worth then rather than now.

Overall, I'd say that although the Twingo had not raced to
the top of the list, it's still in contention.

Pros

<ul>[*]4 Year warranty, roadside assistance and free servicing[*]Interest Free Finance (for 50% deposit)[*]Customisable. There's
a great tool at http://twingo.renault.com/en-gb/welcome-en-gb-41440.html.
I put together a nice red version with black wheels and stripes that look way
better than the dull looking demo car (search for ""raw revs""� from the Gallery). Prices don't cost the earth [*]Nice funky interior[*]Climate Control[*]8 weeks (max) delivery time[/list]









Cons

<ul>[*]Not 100% on the styling[*]Don't like it as much as the Up!/Mii/Citigo to ""˜look at'[*]No Maps and more![/list]









Edited by: bazves
 

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I like your smart car!

Also, I think that the reason VWs have a long wait time is that demand is high... You get better deals on other cars as the dealer needs to do that to shift them!

It's all about supply and demand... Just in my opinion of course :)
 

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Looks good but remember that depreciation is the biggest cost by far...how will the twingo compare to the up?

Also, (sensible hat on). What are the safety features ? Comparable....Up bats well above its class on crash testing etc

But yes, Gallic flair is definitely there....nice car
 

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Ps.....your smart looks great ....white is THE colour! ;-)
 

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Like the smart car (looks lovely in white) but I'm afraid the Twingo does absolutely nothing for me. As with anything in life, it's obviously personal choice/preference but it's definitely not my cup of tea.
 

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I liked the look of the original Twingo, the one Renault wouldn't sell in this country. But looking at some pictures of it on Google, it doesn't seem to have aged well.

Nick
 

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That latest facelifted Twingo has a lot going on with the extra (round) lights at the front, and the extra tail lights. Seems a bit 'busy'.
Just a heads up: the new Twingo is not far off, so that model will look dated soon.
 

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Completely agree with you Nick.

We hired a Twingo on holiday many moons ago and loved it. We looked out for it in the uk for a few years before giving up
 

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Hi Bazves - I did a remarkably similar spreadsheet on the 3 models and drove a Citigo before deciding on the up!

In view of your comments about black centre caps on your other post, here's an interesting one relating to the Citigo Elegance - you can't order it with 15" alloys as a factory fit option, even though you can on an SE! They are available as a dealer accessory, but only in black, for about £650.

Why the up! - IMHO it looks better, has lots of nice extra detailing - e.g look at the bottom side window on the Citigo and it has no trim finisher whereas the up! does. No split boot in the Citigo either etc. etc.

The up! is also forecast to hold it's value better, so although it is more expensive initially, the true cost of ownership is likely to be much closer in the long run.

At the end of the day they are all good cars - so you pays your money....
 

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Since you are looking around, take a gander at DriveTheDeal.com. For
example, Ford Ka for about £6,800 new. I know you wouldn't want one, but
that is an example of the discounts. Personally I think the Up is a
better car than bigger cars such as the Fiesta, even when I could get one for almost the same price as an Up.
 

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Leif said:
Since you are looking around, take a gander at DriveTheDeal.com. For
example, Ford Ka for about £6,800 new. I know you wouldn't want one, but
that is an example of the discounts. Personally I think the Up is a
better car than bigger cars such as the Fiesta, even when I could get one for almost the same price as an Up.

Broadspeed.com is another good site for getting some pretty hefty discounts on new cars, especially if you're prepared to wait 8-10 weeks. Unfortunately even they can't get decent discounts on the up!, the best they can manage is £56 on the up! Black/White 5dr.
 

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If you haggle hard with a VW dealer, there seems to be around £250 to be got as a discount tho they would much rather show it as free service pack or similar
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Privatedoc said:
If you haggle hard with a VW dealer, there seems to be around £250 to be got as a discount tho they would much rather show it as free service pack or similar
I do wonder whether the deal that was offered me by VW was about as good as it was going to get. I didn't think that it was that great. They offered me a low trade in (compared to what Reanult offered), pushed me towards a PCP that I did not need or want (and resulted in them needing to give me 'cashback' to make the PCP work), and on the car itself that once I'd added all my options on came to a smidge over 13k, knocked absolutely nothing off. My 'freebie' was the free servicing (£299), but was told half of that discount was dependent on taking a PCP. Then after that they refused to stump up for the centre caps. Did anyone else actually get a decent deal ???
 

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bazves said:
Privatedoc said:
If you haggle hard with a VW dealer, there seems to be around £250 to be got as a discount tho they would much rather show it as free service pack or similar
I do wonder whether the deal that was offered me by VW was about as good as it was going to get. I didn't think that it was that great. They offered me a low trade in (compared to what Reanult offered), pushed me towards a PCP that I did not need or want (and resulted in them needing to give me 'cashback' to make the PCP work), and on the car itself that once I'd added all my options on came to a smidge over 13k, knocked absolutely nothing off. My 'freebie' was the free servicing (£299), but was told half of that discount was dependent on taking a PCP. Then after that they refused to stump up for the centre caps. Did anyone else actually get a decent deal ???

I went to the dealers armed with a p/x valuation from Glasses
and Parkers and to be fair their offer was right on the guide price and it
would be held until the new car was delivered, which I thought was very fair as
it would bound to be worth a little less after 3 months.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />

They gave a £250 discount (shown as an increased p/x value) threw
in the 3 year service package and full sized spare wheel. All in all I was
pretty happy considering it's a new car in high demand.

I also placed my order at the month end which may have
helped with the deal (or not)
 
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