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Yep - and all the key parts are CotS!

getting off topic as usual - and as human conversations always must - I went for wine earlier, and at the edge the car park, an unoccupied, old-ish big MB SUV was sat at a jaunty angle and in the way. Like 'a danger to shipping' as SUV's are... It's probably broken down, I thought at first, and then thought "that'll probably cost you!" unless your husband owns a garage! Can't beat a bit of schadenfreude on a wine run!
 

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Can you get the GTi without DSG? I know of so many people who’ve had horrific bills on those gearboxes over the years in Skodas, Audis, VWs and Seats.
Don't think so. Possibly in countries like Germany, but Volkswagen sell all of their performance cars in the UK with DSG only.

The good news is that they now use the wet clutch gearbox (pretty sure the clutches just sit in oil whilst working) which means no more, or much less, issues with the gearbox as the previous gen Polo GTIs had dry clutch DSG.

Hello by the way, long time no see everyone :)
 

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Don't think so. Possibly in countries like Germany, but Volkswagen sell all of their performance cars in the UK with DSG only.

The good news is that they now use the wet clutch gearbox (pretty sure the clutches just sit in oil whilst working) which means no more, or much less, issues with the gearbox as the previous gen Polo GTIs had dry clutch DSG.

Hello by the way, long time no see everyone :)
I just wondered as although many of the last version Polo GTi’s were DSG there are a few manuals floating about.
 

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Everyone has their own preferences manual or automatic, but in congested traffic automatics are excellent, made for the job. Black Cab Taxis all Auto, Public Transport buses all auto, even modern supercars are auto, and all electric cars are one gear auto.

I read somewhere i think in a motoring magazine that seeing as you will only be able to buy new Electric cars in 2030, they cant see the point in any new drivers taking their driving test in a manual. Then again there will always be new drivers who have interest in manual classic cars, or who only want to spend the least amount of money on their first car which would probably be a manual.

I went for a drive yesterday in the morning rush hour traffic which usually lasts all day. Constantly on and off the clutch, first gear to second, back to first to second etc. In an auto i would have just sat there with the car doing all the work.

Its not a major problem as being retired i drive so little these days and i love my UP GTI, but if i drove as much as i did when i was working i would only entertain an automatic.

I am not trying to convert anyone. If you like manuals that's fine, but for me when ever a car has the option of an auto box i will have it in automatic every time, as i am sure all my future cars will be. I have had loads of automatics in the past be they automated manual, torque converter etc and all have been 100% reliable.

Again this is just my preference, but i always respect other peoples views and preferences.
 

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getting off topic as usual - and as human conversations always must -

Off Topic? WE never go Off Topic!!

Talking about going Off Topic, i thought i had seen everything when i noticed the other day on AT an UP GTI with 150 miles on the clock priced at £19 000. However today there is a 71 reg advertised with over a thousand miles on the clock priced at £20 500. Can you believe that?

What will we see next? A year old Dacia Sandero for £30 000. A ford Fiesta for £40 000.

Who is buying these cars at the crazy prices? I think no one, seeing as there are so many cars for sale. How can they say its because of shortages in new cars. We have always had to wait many months for a new car unlike in the 60s and 70s when dealers had new unregistered cars in their compound and you could drive away your new car in a couple of days after it had its PDI.

I think the inflated price of used cars at the moment being blamed on Covid and Chips ( makes a change from Fish and Chips ) is just a good idea thought up by Arthur Daley so he can laugh all the way to the bank.
 

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Off Topic? WE never go Off Topic!!

Talking about going Off Topic, i thought i had seen everything when i noticed the other day on AT an UP GTI with 150 miles on the clock priced at £19 000. However today there is a 71 reg advertised with over a thousand miles on the clock priced at £20 500. Can you believe that?

What will we see next? A year old Dacia Sandero for £30 000. A ford Fiesta for £40 000.

Who is buying these cars at the crazy prices? I think no one, seeing as there are so many cars for sale. How can they say its because of shortages in new cars. We have always had to wait many months for a new car unlike in the 60s and 70s when dealers had new unregistered cars in their compound and you could drive away your new car in a couple of days after it had its PDI.

I think the inflated price of used cars at the moment being blamed on Covid and Chips ( makes a change from Fish and Chips ) is just a good idea thought up by Arthur Daley so he can laugh all the way to the bank.
If you look around (at Up! GTi prices) though there is a softening of prices at the bottom end, not all the cars but a few, if you watch the market constantly (as I have been) there’s quite a few that have come down by £500 in the last week or so. Common for this time of year though when the market stalls until spring. Those dealers that can afford it will keep their prices high and not sell, those that want to keep their stock fresh discount and sell.

Always amuses me how few GTi’s come up as private sales, there is a very nice one on here and Autotrader at the moment, good value considering spec and age etc etc, but it’s rare to see them other than as trade ads, I guess most dealers are offering what they consider to be top dollar and then slapping even more on top… ‘car value price bubble’ anyone? Rather than go pop I guess it’ll deflate slowly but expensively by X% as Covid recedes and car production returns to whatever pre-electric normal production levels demand.
 

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Everyone has their own preferences manual or automatic, but in congested traffic automatics are excellent, made for the job. Black Cab Taxis all Auto, Public Transport buses all auto, even modern supercars are auto, and all electric cars are one gear auto.

I read somewhere i think in a motoring magazine that seeing as you will only be able to buy new Electric cars in 2030, they cant see the point in any new drivers taking their driving test in a manual. Then again there will always be new drivers who have interest in manual classic cars, or who only want to spend the least amount of money on their first car which would probably be a manual.

I went for a drive yesterday in the morning rush hour traffic which usually lasts all day. Constantly on and off the clutch, first gear to second, back to first to second etc. In an auto i would have just sat there with the car doing all the work.

Its not a major problem as being retired i drive so little these days and i love my UP GTI, but if i drove as much as i did when i was working i would only entertain an automatic.

I am not trying to convert anyone. If you like manuals that's fine, but for me when ever a car has the option of an auto box i will have it in automatic every time, as i am sure all my future cars will be. I have had loads of automatics in the past be they automated manual, torque converter etc and all have been 100% reliable.

Again this is just my preference, but i always respect other peoples views and preferences.
I’m not against Auto boxes, I’d quite like one really but it’s the added link in the chain of something else that can go expensively wrong.
I have an old friend who runs slush box auto’s (never DSG) for his work cars, always runs them to a lunar mileage (230/240k miles) old autos (late 90’s) lasted 80k, mid 00’s ones 120k, 10’s 140/160k’s ? (he’s not had the latest one let go yet).
One thing I think is key is he uses the cars pretty much daily, I think standing around doing nothing getting damp wouldn’t help their longevity, if they are used they are warm, kept dry, volts/batteries are kept up and working.

I just don’t think I do enough miles to keep one fully exercised properly and judging by my friends cars when they get old and grouchy they become a real pain in the backside, no-one can fix them cost effectively so it’s time to stick it on eBay and get another and begin the cycle again.
 

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Presently there’s many more for sale than previously and a slight softening of used prices.

However, there’s always a glut of used cars at this time of year as people largely stop buying from December to March. The sensible dealers who want to sell and keep stock moving discount, the greedy ones who are happy to let stuff just sit there keep their price high and wait in the hope that someone will eventually turn up.

In the meantime a general lack of used GTi’s and inflation will keep used prices firm.

Just under 3800 registered by mid 2021in the uk and 160 for sale on Autotrader today not all of which are ‘used’.
Pretty sure Vaultboy was referring to the current prices of Lupo GTIs.
 

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According to the internet the Lupo was assembled in Wolfsburg Germany and Belgium.
As such it was based on the Seat Arosa.
Lupo wasn't based on the Arosa, they are the same car as is the up! to the Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii.
 

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Lupo wasn't based on the Arosa, they are the same car as is the up! to the Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii.
Yes, really it’s a shortened Polo, Arosa came first, Lupo followed, both share the same platform.

Have edited original post for correctness.
 

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If you look around (at Up! GTi prices) though there is a softening of prices at the bottom end, not all the cars but a few, if you watch the market constantly (as I have been) there’s quite a few that have come down by £500 in the last week or so. Common for this time of year though when the market stalls until spring. Those dealers that can afford it will keep their prices high and not sell, those that want to keep their stock fresh discount and sell.

Always amuses me how few GTi’s come up as private sales, there is a very nice one on here and Autotrader at the moment, good value considering spec and age etc etc, but it’s rare to see them other than as trade ads, I guess most dealers are offering what they consider to be top dollar and then slapping even more on top… ‘car value price bubble’ anyone? Rather than go pop I guess it’ll deflate slowly but expensively by X% as Covid recedes and car production returns to whatever pre-electric normal production levels demand.


That is all very true. All trades and businesses suffer after Christmas. London Taxi Drivers call this time of the year the "Kipper Season."

I think most private owners of the UP GTI or any car for that matter sell to the Trade either in a part ex or a straight sale. That is why you mostly see trade ads.

Lets hope prices get back to normal soon.
 

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I’m not against Auto boxes, I’d quite like one really but it’s the added link in the chain of something else that can go expensively wrong.
I have an old friend who runs slush box auto’s (never DSG) for his work cars, always runs them to a lunar mileage (230/240k miles) old autos (late 90’s) lasted 80k, mid 00’s ones 120k, 10’s 140/160k’s ? (he’s not had the latest one let go yet).
One thing I think is key is he uses the cars pretty much daily, I think standing around doing nothing getting damp wouldn’t help their longevity, if they are used they are warm, kept dry, volts/batteries are kept up and working.

I just don’t think I do enough miles to keep one fully exercised properly and judging by my friends cars when they get old and grouchy they become a real pain in the backside, no-one can fix them cost effectively so it’s time to stick it on eBay and get another and begin the cycle again.


I guess you have to be lucky with any car. Look how many moan about the UP GTI with noisy suspension, hard ride, wind noise etc, but others say there cars are perfect including myself. (Dont mention the tepid seats. I mentioned them once but i think i got away with it. Manwhell Keh?)

I had my Smart auto for 10 years and only did 1000 miles a year in it, so most of the time it was sat idle, but it was perfectly reliable. I also had a Jaguar XJ6 auto in the 80s that i did over 100 000 miles in on the original auto box and again 100% reliable.

As i said you have to be lucky, but i also think that driving calm and relaxed and looking after your car certainly helps.
 

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Never having owned either car (but being old enough to have had Mk1 & Mk2 Golf GTIs and done the whole mod thing with them) I think both have their strong points.

The Lupo GTI is a rare beastie and always will be, particularly in unmodified form. For that reason prices are already going the way of 5 figures. We'll see them up there with big bumper Mk2 GTIs in time. When they first came out I looked at them and had a test drive thinking they were the spiritual successor to the Mk1 GTI and yep, they were. Hugely fun things, really simple underneath, proper solid engineering, from that period of time when VAG still did slightly bonkers things (Audi A2 springs to mind).

From what I've seen of the Up GTI it's built to appeal to 50-somethings like me who remember '80s hot hatches from the first time round, we probably owned them and definitely got up to mischief in them. It's more packaging and marketing than anything special engineering-wise. That even extends to the door stripes which are straight off a Mk1 Golf GTI. In some ways it's similar to the Fiat 500 and also the new Honda E. I don't think they'll ever be as rare as a Lupo GTI and not sure they'll have the fanatical following of that car or the Golf GTIs. Now, if they made a hot e-Up it might be a different story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I had my first proper good thrash in mine this weekend. I was left thinking that I can’t see why I would need a golf or polo GTI to give me the fun. Practicality and relative refinement the UP GTI gives me. And looking back at my old mk2 golf GTI days. I feel this car manages to plug that gap I have been missing for years.
 

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Since I wrote that post I've driven an Up TSI and I can see how I could be an utter hooligan in one. Cheap* fast motoring, with scope for gentle modding.
*OK, relative term but a TSI is incredible value. Give it 5 years and they'll become somewhat disposable as the march to electric and rising petrol prices undermines demand. That's when the fun will really start.
 

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Agreed the TSI is where it's at for adding value with a bit of gentle modding (though I know this has been done to death on here !).

There are 2 key areas where the TSI is worse than the GTI as stock:
Handling: TSI will benefit most from sensible lowering and better control through better dampers;
Power: arguably the GTI has the right amount of power already for what will always be a small, tall, very short wheelbase front wheel drive car, the TSI could do with that extra 25bhp or so;

1 key area where the TSI is clearly better than the GTI as stock: ride. The TSI has much lighter 15" wheels as standard with more sidewall. Cheap tyres, kerb-friendly, low road noise. I would keep them. Perfect with Eibach Pro Street or similar coilovers: just the right compromise between immediacy of turn-in and pot hole smoothing.
 
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